ERIC CLAYTON: His Story (is History)
Part I
Overture
The story of Eric Clayton could be the story of me or the story of you; there but for the grace of God, I go. All of us are genetically wired with the capacity for self-destruction, bitterness and physical illness, yet paradoxically, we are capable of accomplishing great things when we are willing to deny self, place the value of others above our own, and choose love and forgiveness over pride and resentment. This does not come easily – to which Eric’s journey will testify – yet when it does, the love which flows out of a man’s heart has the capacity to heal a thousand scars…
… and, not to mention, the capacity to create nearly 80 minutes of emotionally engaging, incredibly profound, conceptually succinct, instrumentally breath-taking all-new ORIGINAL MUSIC!!
As with all things Eric Clayton (and Saviour Machine) this interview is epic, intense, and deeply emotional. But as with all things Eric Clayton, if you are willing to make the investment of mind, heart and soul, you may find this literary catharsis to be one of the most rewarding and deeply inspiring journalistic journeys you will embark upon this year. Read on to find out what happened to Eric Clayton, how he was called (literally) back into music, who he met along the way, what in the world he was thinking, what he wrote about and why, what in the name of Bowie does it all sound like … and most importantly, to discover the magic of the number 9.
His Story (is History)
It has been quite some time since we have heard original material from you. Perhaps begin by telling us about the genesis and inspiration behind coming together with a group of musicians at this point in your life journey to both perform and write new material. And what made you choose the name Eric and The Nine?
Comatose in Absentia
Hello, my friend. You started off with a whopper. Thank you for your time and appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. You are absolutely correct; it has been quite some time – nearly twenty years since I released original material. That in itself is probably another interview. I spent the greater part of the last 18 years laying pretty low, slowly disappearing, moving very far away from the music industry.
Between 2001 and 2012 I developed a number of health problems, both physical and psychological, and was on quite a cocktail of serious medication, basically spent the better part of a decade in a legal heroin coma with a bunch of psychotropics for depression, anxiety, sleep disorders, PTSD and night terrors. That was the first part of my disappearance – laying pretty low between 2002 and 2012.
Utah
At the end of 2013, my former wife of 30 years and I chose to separate and divorce. Yeah, you can imagine that following the 12 years of legal drug haze it was kind of the icing on the cake for hitting rock bottom. I left California in December of 2013 and moved to Utah to find my happy place – a place to reboot/restart and recenter. So after spending the first 47 years of life in California, I moved to southern Utah and got myself clean, away from a bunch of doctors overprescribing medication and started finding more holistic and healthier ways to deal with these afflictions and ailments.
I spent the next three and a half years in Utah – from January 2014 to July of 2017. During that time, I made a number of friends and associates there in Utah. I found a way to get back into a beloved passion of mine from youth – got back into teaching and baseball, which was always a first love for me. I love working with kids. During the course of three and a half years, I built a nice base of students that I was working with weekly and I loved my job. I had found a place for myself there away from music in a very simple life that I found very gratifying. All of that was complicated shortly thereafter…
“Well, he just didn’t give up – he persisted and made me an offer I couldn’t refuse.”
The Theater Equation and New-Found Love
Sometime in the fall of 2015 I came to Europe and decided to sing again. To put it in perspective I had basically disappeared, fallen off the face of the earth and Eric Clayton and Saviour Machine (SM) was just a chapter of my life that was quietly behind me. In spring 2015, when I was very much in a place where I didn’t want to be found and had nothing to do with music anymore, a dear friend of mine reached out and let me know that Arjen Lucassen (Ayreon) – the brilliant Dutch artist I had worked with back in 2004 (The Human Equation) – was trying to find me.
He did in fact find me in Utah through this mutual friend and we began some discussion. I let him know early on that I was honored and gracious for the opportunity, but I was retired and wasn’t a performer anymore.
Well, he just didn’t give up – he persisted and made me an offer I couldn’t refuse. So, after some time I did finally accept, and it was terrifying – the idea of standing on the stage again was truly terrifying. My daughter had just graduated from high school, so it was a chance to take her to Europe and show her Amsterdam and so forth, so I took the gig.
Came over not knowing what to expect but I had a profoundly moving experience working with an incredible staff of people and tremendous artists with extremely friendly personalities. I made a lot of friends during that time.
To make this long story short, me performing in the Netherlands in September of 2015 – three concerts for The Theater Equation with Ayreon – this was the beginning of my gentle step back into music and just lit a little fire in me that I thought had burned out. And so that is the genesis of the comeback.
After the final performance of The Theater Equation, as I was getting on the artist bus to go back to the hotel, I was stopped by a few fans who I recognized. One of them was a lovely woman that I had seen at a few concerts over the years, and I knew her husband was also was a fan. I met her that night … she told me she was no longer married, and I told her that I was no longer married. Shortly thereafter, we began a bit of an overseas love affair and started dating over the course of the next year with a visit here and a visit there.
To make a long story short, I came here to be with her and to spend my life with her in July of 2017. I have been slowly making the transition from being an American living in America to an American living in Germany. But I love her very much and she really is the wind beneath my wings in so many ways. She’s a true muse and that is where the next part of the comeback comes … this woman I’ve been with for the last 5 years inspires me. She really is my muse in many ways.
The Bowie Tribute
And a little chapter in between would be the death of David Bowie. Bowie was, without doubt, the most influential artist and musician in my life and in my career. When he died it hit me differently than any celebrity death I’ve experienced. It really felt like I’d lost a friend in a way. His work in the 70’s, from 1970 to 1980, was such an instrumental part of the influence on me as an artist and on Saviour Machine’s work.
My brother and I were inspired by his death and chose to spend a year dedicating music to him. So, we spent 2017 doing one Bowie tribute a month from January through December. It not only made the task far less foreboding – for someone who hadn’t done any recording in many, many years and hadn’t stood at a microphone to sing and record in a very, very long time – it was a bit of a healing process for the course of 2017. And with each month and with each track that we released my confidence grew, and my focus and my ability to find myself in music again.
My brother held my hand every step of the way. He was and is the center of all things when it comes to my artistic heart, for sure.
So, my brother and I completed the Bowie project through 2017 and through the course of that the guys in Saviour Machine got involved with the tribute and played on so many of the tracks. By the end of the year we had a mini-SM reunion going, and it was ironic because in the midst of this “kind-of” SM reunion I moved to Europe. Nice timing, right?
But yeah, I moved over here and realized that now that my artistic heart was pumping again and beating strong, I really needed to find my way back to the stage. And I guess answer a question for myself – do I really want to do this again; do I really want to step into music?
So after about 6 months of auditioning a number of very brilliant German musicians, trying to put some sort of super-group together I suppose, so I could go out and perform again, I realized it just wasn’t what I was looking for, and what I was looking for was a band-vibe … and unfortunately my band was in California.
In the meantime, I just had to ride this wave. I knew I needed to get out and see if I could perform as Eric Clayton and perform without the veil of Saviour Machine, without the make-up, without all of that and just reconnect – man, I was away for so long. I needed to know if I could reconnect with my audience face-to-face as well … and I guess I needed to know if anyone still gave a shit, heh, heh!
“…none of us had any clue where it would go. The fact is we had a pretty hot date, everybody kind of hit it off.”
Les Neufties
And this brings us to the birth of The Nine … and it’s a funny story, I’ll tell it quickly. A mutual friend of mine, who is a Dutch guy and a great SM fan for many years … once I moved here we started spending a great deal of time together, got to know each other, and at some point I let him know what kind of frustration I was having putting a band together – a band of German musicians – and he basically threw an idea at me: “Instead of trying to audition guys, what about finding a bunch of guys who are already in a band?” And that took me into a different realm of thought.
So, the long and short of it is Jeroen Geerts – who has since become one of my guitar players in The Nine … he set up a blind date between a Dutch cover band called Les Neufties, which basically in French means “the nine,” and Eric Clayton. We set up a blind date for a rehearsal and get together and none of us had any idea what was going to happen, of course. These guys were playing 90’s cover music and I’m coming from the background I’m coming from and showing up again after nearly 20 years … none of us had any clue where it would go. The fact is we had a pretty hot date, everybody kind of hit it off.
The guys in The Nine, they dug in, they learned a bunch of SM classics and a hand-full of covers that I had always wanted to perform, songs that I just always wanted to sing. We went out and did 9 concerts over the course of a year and a half. During those 9 gigs I just fell in love with these guys. They let me know time and time again that this was the band I was gonna make a record with if I ever committed to doing a solo album – this was the band I wanted to record it with.
One day I presented them with the general concept of the record, the plot line. Basically, this is a personal story, it’s my life story and I’m gonna take an attempt at turning it into a concept album and here’s what it is. I shared it with them as it was in the early stages, sharing demos with them, and along the way their involvement became as great, or even greater, than I had hoped.
These guys really did … regardless of how clear my vision was and how much of the music I had developed … we really started digging in together. These guys helped me make a record that I am really, really proud of. Yeah, they were just perfect.
So, to answer the last part of your question about The Nine, they were called Les Neufties. I asked them what that meant, and they said, “Well, it kinda means, like, ‘the nine.’” And I like went, “Well that’s ironic, because the number 9 is hands down my favorite number and the number I’ve been mildly obsessed with since I was a little kid.” And I said, “What about Eric Clayton and The Nine,” and it stuck and here we are, brother.
Well let me just say, “Wow.” Thank you for sharing. I was aware of some of this history but not much. So cool that Ayreon was your trigger to move back into music. Ayreon is by far and away one of my favorite musical incarnations and I own just about everything Arjen has been involved with. I have even watched those behind the scenes DVDs for every release, including The Theater Equation and so that part of your history I did know – just an amazing story.
The Mask Removed
With all that in perspective, let’s move on. Those of us who have been long-time Saviour Machine fans have looked forward to the day when you would return to music. We rejoice in that day with you. While many still hope to see Saviour Machine rise from the ashes, this new incarnation of Eric Clayton stands strongly on its own. Although there are elements of Saviour Machine peeking through, A Thousand Scars has a distinct vibe. How would you describe, to a virgin listener of your music, the style of the new material?
Distinctions
Right on man, thank you brother. I rejoice in the mutual rejoicing. Glad to be back, man. Of course, SM is such a distinct and massive part of my history. I understand the desire and the hope to see SM rise from the ashes, as you say. That’s a good way of looking at it. I deeply appreciate the fact that you’ve seen and heard the distinction between the work of Saviour Machine and what this record is supposed to be. So, thank you for that.
I suppose because I was such an integral part of the work of Saviour Machine – the writing and production and so forth – there’s no way that that these certain elements of me – the distinct Eric Clayton things … there’s no way those things couldn’t find their way in to all of my work, I suppose. And I suppose, if you listen to the Bowie project – these classic Bowie songs are paying great tribute to him, of course – I hope that Jeff and I found a way of making each of those covers a beautiful tribute with a distinct Eric and Jeff kind of touch on them.
An Intimate Road Map
Regarding A Thousand Scars and my solo album. Because the SM story is such a big part of my story there are thematic elements, atmospheres, and even certain kind of call-backs to a number of lyrics – particularly on SM II. I don’t want to geek you out too much on this sort of thing … you know but there’s universal tie-ins, almost like a comic book universe. A Thousand Scars is to me a road map, and a road map to my life. There are a lot of little puzzles in there and one of them is deeply connected to the narrative on SM II – particularly “The Stand.”
I wanted to make certain that if I was to bring my story to life with music that I was ever aware of my SM story and how much of all that plays into my story. And so, yes, there are moments where you kind of feel SM peeking through as you said and I agree, and it was very intentional. At the same time maybe very organic and natural, its who I am … it’s a part of me and there’s no way I could tell my story without including my persona as Eric Clayton/Saviour Machine and some of the self-destructive behavior and the messiah complex and all that stuff … it’s a lot of stuff to absorb, man.
“I’m not sure if I know how to produce music that isn’t fairly epic and dramatic.”
But to hone-in on your specific question about the distinct vibe, I’m not sure how I could describe Saviour Machine to a virgin listener. I still don’t know how to do that. But I suppose if someone was familiar with my work in SM … I suppose I would just say, if you love SM, if there are things in SM that really, really make an impact on you … you will find those things in A Thousand Scars as well. These are elements that are engrained in my DNA. I’m not sure if I know how to produce music that isn’t fairly epic and dramatic. I guess it’s my thing.
But I will say specifically, though, as far as major differences between the work of SM and A Thousand Scars … I would say SM was always focused on such a grand narrative … yes, I mean especially towards the end the Legend trilogy and all of that, it just got bigger and bigger and so impersonal and such an enormous story that it became difficult to find myself in it. I suppose you could say A Thousand Scars is like taking all of SM and stripping away so much of the wall, you know, and really focusing in on the narrative, and in this case a very personal narrative.
This is an intimate album, far more intimate than anything I have ever produced with SM. SM of course had many, many beautiful melancholy ballads and intimate moments here and there. The intimacy on this album is so personal and so organic, you can taste it. I really don’t know how else to describe it. It’s almost so profoundly transparent and vulnerable at times that it can even make the listener feel a bit uncomfortable the first time through, I suppose, and that’s to be expected. But yeah, man, it’s me … it’s me just like everything … it so personal … so personal.
Definitely a more intimate record – I call it Saviour Machine with the mask off…
Lost in Saviour Machine
Sonically, SM made a lot of albums that just almost intentionally tried to make a massive wall of sound and fill every single hole of frequency and give you a potpourri of things to listen to again and again and discover new things and so forth. SM can become a bit of an assault on your ears after a while and it’s a lot of demanding stuff to listen to and requires a complete investment from the listener and can be taxing.
I would say that my solo album is more palpable, it’s a little easier on the ears. I made sure not to confuse … there’s a very complex story here that doesn’t need a lot of bells and whistles. I think it was very important for me to make sure that the music represented the emotional quality of what was going on, like scoring a film track, of course. There is a cinematic quality to this just like all of my music, I suppose. I think that is what my brother and I were always able to do with SM and I really believe we have done the same here – is create a cinematic atmosphere, something you can close your eyes and listen to and see the story.
“…I’ve made a choice to never be involved with anything ever again that I can’t find myself in, that I can’t completely connect with on an emotional level…”
After my struggles with the completion of the Legend trilogy and the debacle and everything that went down with that and the bad taste in my mouth walking away from the project and all of it … that project wore me down in so many ways, but specifically from a creative standpoint I found it difficult to find myself in it, and when you are an artist and you are trying to create organically and you can’t find yourself in your work, you’re screwed.
Man, the fact that I am doing this again, the fact that I’m committed to writing again and producing records again … I’ve made a choice to never be involved with anything ever again that I can’t find myself in, that I can’t completely connect with on an emotional level … and that’s where I’m at, brother, that’s my trip today.
Musical Brain Moments
79 minutes. Scars is a massive slab of music, especially considering that the songs are so intricate, diverse and emotionally engaging. I keep hearing new things with every listen. Were most of the songs written recently or is this somewhat of a “pent-up” culmination of what you have been working on for years?
A massive … slab … of music … makes me hungry for a steak or ribs or something. Yeah brother, it’s a good question and I’m thankful you are hearing new things with every listen. That’s definitely the idea.
I didn’t really, really focus on writing the songs until I moved here to Europe a few years ago. I had just started, I guess the last 6 or 7 months, I guess I started probably in late 2016, early 2017 living in Utah. I had a few very random melodies and lyrics fly into my head into nowhere a few late nights. So basically, I can say some of the early melodies and ideas started being developed when I was living in Utah. I just, I recorded them on a little hand-held device … just ideas, lyrics, stuff like that. I didn’t even know at the time what exactly was going on.
I just found it fascinating that my brain was having musical moments again, and that I was starting to have melodies and things like that in my head. That in itself was a strange time to navigate because I wasn’t sure if I was ready for it. But I saved everything, and I really began focusing in on the writing in 2018. And by 2019, I had a pretty strong narrative.
The record was written and produced over 3 years basically … very, very focused in the last year. But to your question, I suppose the narrative began much further back. This is a record … somehow it is 20 years in the making and maybe beyond that. Maybe its 50 years in the making. This is basically everything I got at the moment … and so, I guess I just look at it that it was a record that took the time it needed to be developed. Years and years of life culminating and one day finally putting it down on to a piece of paper.
And just to clarify as a little side note: I composed zero original music from some time in 1999 until just a few years ago. It was nearly 20 years of NOT composing original music. So yeah, just throw that there on top of it … it was done in just the last couple of years.
Excellent!
The Mutation
Well tell us about the musicians you chose to work with on this release. It seems like you have already developed a certain chemistry with them in a short time. I will say, it is good to see you and Jeff working together again as well.
Jeff
My musicians… First of all, starting with my brother. Jeff and I were – as difficult as it was because of an ocean in between us – we were trying to write for SM. All of us in SM were trying to write initially for SM. I had this idea to do a solo record in the back of my mind for the past few years, but we were really focused on making a SM record. So, Jeff and I were writing together. Nathan and Sam and Chuck were writing together. Yeah, basically we were all trying to work together with modern technology and so forth … it was not going the way we hoped it would go.
A lot of really, really great ideas and a lot of foundations to build on and so forth … but I think after so many years apart and not being active as a band, I think all of us believing that SM could somehow write a record together and produce an album together when we couldn’t even stand in the same room together – and we would have to do it through sending digital files and so forth – it was too much to ask.
But the fact is that if Jeff and I and Sam and Nathan and Chuck are going to dig into making that SM record together, we are going to have to do it on the same continent. Yeah, that’s where that goes. But that’s where the birth of really working with Jeff came from because we were already working together with SM and it mutated…
So a long story short, through the course of trying to write a SM album I realized that my heart was being pulled to telling my personal story about what had happened and why I was gone for so long, and I realized that I had to tell my story first before I could turn that page and move on to another chapter. So Jeff and I took a few of the songs that we were kind of originally working for SM, like “The Space Between Us” and “Revelation Mine” and “American Whore” and “The Cages” … those 4 songs were being developed for SM and basically we shifted the narrative and I began to write lyrics for each of those compositions to tie them into the narrative of this record.
Devon
My brother has always been the “yin” to my “yang” and it was weird making a record without him here, without him by my side, but the fact that he wrote four of the songs on this record kinda kept him really close at all times. And then my brother Devon Graves – my brother from another mother – he really took the reins and basically took me to the “promised land” brother.
I’ve talked a little bit about my musicians in The Nine and what amazing guys they are and how much I love them. This was a big, big project for them. They were stepping into a big production and I am super proud of them for stepping up and playing as brilliantly as they did … and finding themselves in the record. And so, between my brother, Devon Graves, my band … and one more…
Adam
One more long-time friend who deserves a lot of cred, and he’s been kind of in the shadows of this whole thing, but he is a very good friend of mine named Adam Pederson. He and I go way, way back. He was a fan I met back in the early ‘90’s and we just developed a friendship over the years. He started composing music … and over the years he sent me a lot of music and so forth … Adam has sent me a lot of things over the years and I’ve kind of collected a few things here and there that I thought, “Oh, yeah, this is interesting, maybe I’d like to work with Adam on this and work with Adam on that.”
With this album we finally had a chance to do a little work together, and Adam Pederson turned out to be my co-composer to the music on five of the tracks on this record – yeah, he was special part of what was going on here.
So between my band in the Netherlands, myself in Germany, Devon Graves in Austria, my brother in California and Adam Pederson in Minnesota, this was a true multi … well just two continents … a lot of different dynamics going on by the way we brought this thing together and could not have done it without some amazing technology. The interweb is pretty cool.
Amazing stuff and flows nicely into…
The Brother from Another Mother
The production and sound quality may surpass anything you have worked on to date. I was excited to see Devon Graves involved in the recording and mixing. His work with Psychotic Waltz has been pioneering in the progressive genre, and their own comeback album released earlier this year (The God Shaped Void) is one of the strongest albums I’ve heard this year.
I know you both performed on Ayreon – The Human Equation (2004) and again in the stage production The Theater Equation a few years back. How did you come to work with him on this project and in what ways did he encourage you or guide you in the process?
Fast Love
Thank you for your line of questions here … this is nice. I always appreciate the opportunity to discuss my ongoing “bromance” with Devon Graves. I love the dude very, very much. He’s really like a brother to me. And it happened fast, brother. We met for the first time – even though we worked together on that Human Equation record in 2004, we never met each other … and I wasn’t familiar with his work and he wasn’t familiar with mine … we actually didn’t meet until The Theater Equation in September 2015, all those years later. And it was even more ironic because we both grew up and were basically born and raised in the same area, less than 2 hours apart, in Southern California – him San Diego, me San Bernardino.
And it’s really a trip – blows both of us away to this day – that we never crossed paths in Southern California. I mean Psychotic Waltz and Saviour Machine were formed within a two year period of each other in the late ‘80’s. Yeah, man, it’s a trip that somehow we never converged or ended up running into each other until 2015. But yeah, since then it happened pretty fast. It happened in 2015, I think we were both nervous about the production … our roles in it and how to approach it. It was something unique for both of us. I guess I was just happy I met another American – I wasn’t expecting to – and for it to turn out for it to be such a super cool guy so close to my age and definitely a man after my own heart.
We just hit it off famously. It was kinda ridiculous actually and kinda silly. We enjoyed each other just too much over that time … maybe even had a little too much fun. That relationship was started there in 2015. We kept in touch a little bit off and on for the next couple of years but it was 2017 when we worked together on the Bowie classic for the Bowie tribute project Jeff and I were working on in 2017. Devon Graves took the reins on production of the track “Fame” – which was for July of that year – and it coincided with a European visit. I came over to visit my lovely girlfriend at the time and Devon and I spent a long weekend together producing the “Fame” track.
“…I’m a man of grand focused vision and pretty clear vision most of the time, but I’ve had difficulty my whole life finding people who could help me realize my vision.”
He’s the Guy
I realized, just even producing one track with him, he was the guy that I wanted to co-produce and masterfully engineer my solo album if I could ever actually get around to writing it and producing it … and very shortly thereafter – after the Bowie project was done – I kept in touch (I was here in Europe so it was easier to keep in touch) and I kind of let him in a little bit at a time as I was developing the record and as it was coming to demos and things like that, and I kept him in the loop. We set it up on a hand-shake – two friends going into something potentially very powerful, but big project together.
I think we both were intensely nervous about it. At the same time, I think we both knew that somehow something beautiful would come from it. Man, I’m sure thankful, because something did. Devon just has a touch, and I’m a man of grand focused vision and pretty clear vision most of the time, but I’ve had difficulty my whole life finding people who could help me realize my vision. Part of that had to do with being young and too ambitious and too egocentric and all those things, but I’m so glad that I met a guy like Devon at this point of my life – a bit older, wiser. I think we would have hit it off at any point in our lives, but I’m so thankful we met now, and I am very, very proud of the work that we’ve done together with this.
And to close that chapter I’d say, it won’t be the last time. Devon and I will certainly work together again – we’ve got some ideas. So yeah, that’s my chapter on Devon Graves. He’s pretty damn cool … cool dude and freakishly brilliant and talented and I love him.
By the way, A Thousand Scars and The God Shaped Void are the best records I’ve heard this year, so there you go…
Nice!
The Voice
Eric, your vocals are fantastic on this recording. Aside from the changes inherent to age, it appears that you are healthier than you have been in many years. Was the return to singing a natural progression or did you have to participate in any type of vocal rehab/re-training?
Thank you, brother. That’s very nice of you to say. You know what, I’m not sure exactly what to say with this … I, ah, didn’t sing for many, many years. I basically just, around The Theater Equation, sang for the first time in a long time. And then I started singing over the course of a year. Maybe that was it, maybe doing the Bowie project over the course of one year, and having a month to focus on each track along the way, maybe that is exactly what conditioned my voice and got me comfortable singing again and strengthening those muscles and so forth. I guess muscle memory is the thing
So, I didn’t and haven’t gone through vocal training or rehab or anything. I wouldn’t know what to do with anything like that since I’ve never had any formal training – just a natural singer who’s been trying to figure out how to do it along the way. And somehow, I guess, even at my advanced age, I think somehow I’ve learned how to use my voice in more versatile ways and use it in more expressive ways to find a way to maximize what I have. I don’t know, I think in some ways I am a better singer than I was years ago. Maybe not in pure range, but in ability to use it.
That’s what I’m hearing too – maturity can be good thing, right?
I suppose young men – young artists in particular – have a bit too much to say and not enough wisdom to know how to say it … so maybe it really does become just a matter of time.
Intermission
Editorial Note: At this point I would like to clarify that, prior to this interview, I was not aware Eric had posted a synopsis of each of the first ten tracks of the album on his FB page. Without the context of these insights, I had somewhat drawn my own conclusions about the nature of the lyrical content as can be seen from the direction of the questions which follow.
I debated whether or not to change the format of the interview at this point, but chose to leave the questions as they had originally been conceived based on nothing other than my own interpretation of the lyrics (without any context or pre-release insight) which I had formulated prior to conducting the interview. I will confess, as a writer/interviewer/human, that it was a bit of an awkward, nervous moment. Eric graciously proceeded to expound upon each song, providing additional exposition and color. [With Eric’s permission, those synopses have been embedded in the following chapter of the interview.]
Part II
Synopsis I
I would like to hear your thoughts on some of these songs, but first, tell us about the lyrical concept of A Thousand Scars. The depth and sincerity of your lyrics have always been a strength for you as an artist. The words are both deeply introspective and spiritually discerning and seem much more personal than anything you have previously released. Please share, if you are willing, some of your inspirations and motivations for putting these struggles, revelations and exhortations to music.
As you can imagine discussing the narrative and central themes of this album could be an entirely separate interview, I’m sure. I can provide you some broad strokes of course. It’s me, it’s my story somehow … from the opening track (“The Space Between Us”), which is very much a symbol/outward gesture of me reaching back to everyone who had the patience and faith that I would return. I was away for a long time, and I felt like before I got into the story it was important to settle-up first.
I’m in that camp – one who hoped and truly believed you would be back. Partly selfish, because I missed the music as all fans do, but mostly because I always believed your story wasn’t complete. I knew through others that a lot of bad things were going on but didn’t know specifics … but I knew you couldn’t stay there forever.
“Revelation Mine” acts as a map for the narrative. It’s the key – like a concordance per se – and lets you know what’s coming and where its headed. And it sounds a bit like a Saviour Machine track because it was intended to be originally, and a lot of the narrative deals with my time away and the distance between now and then.
So, you could say the first 14 minutes of the album – the first two tracks – are basically a very long introduction to a story. And the story begins in chapter 3, “Where It Starts.” That’s where we do the travel back in time. It is somewhat a lament or observation of my relationship with my parents, particularly as a young child, and the beginning of my personal narrative which has to do with certain genetic afflictions and the environmental situations and so forth. I’m sure if you dig into those synopses you can fill in the gaps.
“In the Lines” is dealing with more specific genetic code and certain things that are just in there, brother, certain things that are in the genes. Yeah, that’s really the focus of that, it’s a bit of a bridge into the other track that deals specifically with my father, and my relationship to my father. That’s the 5th track, “A Man’s Heart.” That’s a heavy one, and one of my favorite tracks on the record. Its deeply moving for me and one of the most difficult songs I’ve ever written, but I’m very proud of it and its somewhat of a love letter to my dad and our relationship and its continued effect on me to this day.
“Initiated” gets into searching for another father figure, I suppose you could say, as a young boy, adolescent … deals with certain indoctrinations … those other father figures you look for when there’s a hole and so forth.
“The Cages” deals with rage and anger. That’s really the part of the record that starts dealing with identity conflict and personality disorder and so forth. That is carried over into the next track which is “Lacerations.” That one deals specifically with some of my messiah complex issues that I was dealing with during those SM years and in effect how SM and the character of Eric Clayton and that persona became kind of a self-abuse, masochistic process after a while.
The 9th song on the album, “Chasing Monsters,” is a type of centerpiece. It’s really the point where the narrative comes to an apex, I suppose. It’s important to communicate that singular message in the middle of all this. And that’s my story. I’m a man who got lost along the way and you know I’ve, to this day, I deal with these PTSD issues. I’ve got a funky story and I’ve done a lot of crazy stuff, but the journey I’ve been on … it’s been profound, and “Chasing Monsters” is very representative of the very darkest part of that journey.
“A Thousand Scars is kinda like The Wall, but instead of bricks, they’re scars.” – Devon Graves
The Fall and The Wall
The 10th track, “A Subtle Collapse” … yeah, I suppose that is the fall of Eric Clayton. You know, Devon Graves was the one who realized this in the studio when we were working on the record. I can’t remember which song it was, but it might have been “A Subtle Collapse” … it might have been this song I am talking about. Devon looked at me and said, “You know what I just realized?” He said, “This is your version of The Wall. A Thousand Scars is kinda like The Wall, but instead of bricks, they’re scars.” (Replies) “Yep, brother, that might be it, the deepest base of where I built my foundation for the idea for this.”
I’m a huge fan of The Wall and a huge Floyd fan, in particular on that record. And I’m sure The Wall was a bit of a launching point for building the narrative here. So “A Subtle Collapse” is “Tear Down the Wall” … somewhat. It really is, kind of, the end of my journey. It’s me sitting at the end of 2013. A broken existence – a paralyzed man in a lot of ways. It is definitely right toward the low point of the narrative. But there is a darker track to follow…
I specifically did not publish a synopsis about “American Whore” because I really wanted to leave some of the mystery in that. It was written with some pretty gentle metaphor and allegory, kind of meant to be interpreted on a number of levels. But I can tell you in my personal story – politics aside, other metaphor aside – in my personal journey “American Whore” was written … its my heroin song, brother, its Lou Reed’s “Heroin” … it’s my version of my struggle with the substance, in particular.
So that’s my “American Whore,” just the opiates that I was strung out on for a decade, the psychotropics and all the crazy shit they had me on, man. Like millions of Americans I was somehow trapped in a vicious cycle of the American medical system of over-medicating and not actually treating the problem. And so, there I was brother, that’s really “American Whore.” It’s my way of saying goodbye to all of that, you know.
And then we transition from “American Whore” into a beautiful little instrumental segue, “Faithful Son.” And that very much, at least musically hopefully, represents and gives the emotional equivalent of a type of a man searching for a path home, a new existence and a new lease on life and so forth.
“Faithful Son” segues beautifully into “New Man,” which is actually one of my favorite tracks on the record and I didn’t even write it. I mean, I wrote the lyric and melody of course and developed the track, but the song was written by my drummer Twan. But the narrative of “New Man” … yeah, it’s really the part of the story that represents my time in Utah and kind of finding my happy place again, stepping back out into to being a personality and being an artist and being a performer and so forth. “New Man” represents a lot of things to me but I can’t even hear it without visualizing a Utah desert.
The 14th track is the title track, “A Thousand Scars,” and it is, yeah, I suppose it’s exactly what it says, it’s a little recap. I suppose it’s a little walkthrough right before the end of the story. Somewhat of a recap, it just asks a lot of questions. It’s kind of … it’s my way of asking the listener, asking the participant in the journey if they understand what they’ve experienced and if they’re connected to it and so forth. It’s a powerful track. I’m probably rambling a bit, but it represents a lot to me.
“I’ve just learned and connected with the fact that love is truly a whisper and not a shout, and I find it in the most profound gentle things today.”
Somehow the culmination of the entire emotional arc of the record. It builds and builds and builds in a most beautiful way. It segues beautifully into the final track on the record which is “The Greatest of These,” and I hope that the message in that song speaks for itself. It is and has been the greatest lesson I’ve learned in my life, and I suppose it will be something that I continue to remind myself about daily for the rest of my life. And I’ve just learned and connected with the fact that love is truly a whisper and not a shout, and I find it in the most profound gentle things today.
Synopsis II
Summarize the central message of what you wish to convey to listeners through these songs.
I hope that when people do hear this album, and if they have the patience and endurance to make it through 80 minutes, the journey is beautifully rewarding. I know it’s a dark journey with some very, very heavy stuff along the way, but in the end, there is a resounding message of hope and faith. Enjoy! Enjoy in rejoicing in this fact … in the fact that I’ve chosen to love, I’ve chosen joy, I’ve chosen to live over dying, brother, and I’m happier than I’ve been in a long, long time and hope that in the end the joy comes through.
I can indeed echo that the journey is beautifully rewarding – it has been my worship music over the past few Sundays. And thank you for making me aware of the synopses.
The Soundtrack to the End of Dying
Musically, there is such a wonderful balance of softer and heavier moments. For people like me, who still enjoy listening to an entire album in sequence, this makes for a great flow of sounds and ideas – that dynamic contrast an ebb and flow of dark and light. Thoughts?
My thoughts are, you nailed it, man. I don’t think I could say it any better than you just did. Its all about the atmosphere. I mean if you are gonna make a concept album then the music has to support the narrative and the atmosphere has to match perfectly. Somehow, yeah somehow, I think we got it right and it really does take you on a beautiful experience of many, many different emotions. Like you said, such a contrast of light and dark. Thank you. Thank you for noticing, brother. And it turns me on and makes me very thankful to know that it’s had an impact on you like that. Right on.
Nice!
“Gospel-y” Songs
I love the worshipful nature of this music, some songs almost have a hymn-like quality (“A Man’s Heart,” the title track and especially the closer “The Greatest of These”). Was this intentional or were you merely just writing what was flowing out of your mind and heart? I think what I am asking here is about the musical style – was this purposeful to make these songs sound a bit more like traditional worship music than the typical dark and gothic stuff?
Great question and great observation. I didn’t write many of the tracks on this album myself. I collaborated on the music with a few different people on most every song on the record. I think I wrote 4 or 5 of them myself. You mentioned “A Man’s Heart” and “The Greatest of These” – those are tracks I wrote alone and I think, whether I did it intentionally or whether it just happened subconsciously, I was bound to write a Gospel song at some point.
Gospel music played a huge part in my childhood. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church – very colorful Southern Baptist church – and man, I grew up with some great music. I suppose if I am honest with myself, I was probably trying to write a few hymns/Gospel songs with Saviour Machine and they just turned out weird! But I finally had an opportunity on this record to write two very, very personal tracks that kind of feel like Gospel music.
Those are the only two tracks on the record that are written in 6/8. Unlike every SM record that has a couple of proggy sections here and there where we’ll do something in 7 or 5 or 9 or 11 or some strange time signature, this record didn’t have a place for that. It’s a 4/4 album and the two tracks that feel really churchy and Gospel-y to me – are those words? – are those tracks you mentioned, “A Man’s Heart” and “The Greatest of These.” It has to do with the chords and that 6/8 rhythm.
“Most likely it’s a record I can never make again… Right time, right place and something magical happened.”
The Human Magic
From the opening ethereal moment of “The Space Between Us” it is apparent that you are employing more diverse instrumentation. What effect has the diversity of musicians you now employ had on your ability to expand the scope of your music beyond the realm of gothic rock/metal?
You know what, that’s a tricky question. That might be the hardest one to answer so far, unexpectedly. Part of me wants to say the reason the record sounds so diverse stylistically and instrumentation wise has more to do with again trying to create an atmosphere around the narrative that was more organic … that felt human, felt truly human. It’s such a human story, it was so important to have human performances on this record.
And then secondly I would say that it is beyond the realm of Gothic rock or metal (Well, hopefully – I hope and pray that everything that I’ve ever done has been a little beyond the realm of Gothic rock or metal. SM is still a unique entity in itself).
But back to the question … I do think that this record sounds the way it sounds – a lot of it has to do with the fact that a bunch of old guys played on it, man. I think the youngest of the primary musicians on the album was 39 – Ludo Caanen probably the youngest musician of the majors.
So yeah, I guess that’s what happens when you get a bunch of old guys making the record, you know. Maturity, time and the right thing to say and the right time to say it. Most likely it’s a record I can never make again, and I couldn’t make it 10 years ago and I couldn’t make it 10 years from now. Right time, right place and something magical happened.
Revelation Ride
“Revelation Mine” is hypnotic, dark and heavy – reminiscent of the Legend era Saviour Machine sound – with percussive, tom-driven drum rhythms and synth/programming. What inspired you to write this song and is it in any way connected back to SM material/ideas (i.e. – noticed the reference in the lyrics to the “mask”)?
“Revelation Mine” is as song that was being developed for a new SM album originally before it had a title. It was a piece of music my brother Jeff wrote and submitted for SM and like I said earlier in the interview – calling back to that – I stole it. I said, this is not a Saviour Machine song anymore, this is gonna be the second track on A Thousand Scars. Jeff had written it for SM, there were no lyrics. I developed it into “Revelation Mine” and yes, it is deeply connected to SM stuff, including my persona in SM. Like I said, there’s a whole puzzle going on there and it is a bit of a road map to the entire record and the narrative.
Yeah, to put it really straight, man, its like basically this, “Come, I’ll take you by the hand and I’m gonna share a story with you and the story may not be exactly what you think it’s gonna be, but I promise you it’s worth the ride.”
Cohen Deep
“In the Lines” has an almost electronic/contemporary melodic vibe juxtaposed with those menacing deep bass spoken vocals. What musical influences guided you in crafting this song? Let me guess … Bowie?
You know what, I dig that track, man. That’s a song that the music was developed by Adam Pederson. Really intricate programming and he’s got an affinity for some 80’s music … and of course I grew up in the 80’s, well, let’s say I had my adolescence, my teens years in the 80’s and so I could 80’s dance with the best of them, you know heh, heh. I like a lot of 80’s music, some of the wave stuff in particular which was so heavily inspired by some of Bowie’s mid 70’s work in particular and, yeah, “In The Lines” is definitely coming from those places, the Bowie influence, the wave influence … and then Leonard Cohen, man.
Over the years I became a huge Leonard Cohen fan and next to Bowie and Peter Gabriel I would say Cohen influenced not only the way I write but in the way I would feel comfortable going down into those very, very low registers that only he could hit. And that was kind of Devon’s idea actually. I wrote the song and had the vocal melody written two octaves up higher originally – up close to the top of my range – and we dropped it down to the middle octave and it was really easy for me to sing.
And then Devon had this crazy idea, he was like, “Hey man, can you sing it like even one octave lower?” And so, that’s really how that was born. You know I told him, “Yeah, I can sing it one octave lower but it’s going to sound like Leonard Cohen.” Heh, heh … and he goes, “Cool, let’s do it.” And so we did. Great call by Mr. Graves there to have me drop it 2 octaves and go down deep and it really gave the track something special, for sure.
Lullaby Salute
“A Man’s Heart” is an incredibly moving song both musically and lyrically. The words, “to love a man’s heart, when it lives in the language of hate,” have an impact on so many levels. I am curious to hear your thoughts about this and the choice of the music to be almost like that of a lullaby – like this is the most important song you could sing to your child – these words, this soothing music.
I agree with you in that the narrative of “A Man’s Heart” is impactful and has many levels. I suppose it’s very powerful from the most personal level to a more … I guess a broader more existential perspective. But yes, it was intended to be somewhere between a lullaby and a military … not a march, ah, but a military salute. The song itself, like so many songs on the record, deals with duality and certain paradoxes between those dualities and so forth.
Like I said, it was written for my father and my relationship with my dad and also how that relationship affected me and my relationship with my own children and so forth, and it really is meant to be – I think its insightful of you to hear the lullaby because it really is meant to be a bit of a lullaby and a bit of a salute, I suppose you could say. My dad comes from a military background and it was very prevalent in my childhood, so that might have been why those military horns and marching snares found their way into the middle section of the record.
Emotional Monster
“Chasing Monsters” is a piano-driven ballad, one which clearly renders vulnerable the heart of the artist/singer. Were there ever any moments during the recording process when you just couldn’t make it the whole way through the song without collapsing in tears? Just an incredibly moving piece of music.
Indeed. As you can imagine, I spent 5 weeks in Austria (Feb and first week of March this year) just before the pandemic really broke out in Europe. I was in Austria for 5 weeks recording vocals and premixing with Devon. And during that time daily – I guess it must have happened at least once or twice every day, just about every song on the record, man, there was a place on the record – yeah, the moment of intensity or emotion got to me. And there was a … was littered with profound moments of emotion along the way and moments where I just broke, of course.
“Chasing Monsters” is one of those tracks where it was difficult to get through it all the way and I have only performed it live a couple of times now in very intimate settings, but its powerful stuff and it breaks me every time. There’s a few moments on this record that do that to me, and if you listen close, if you listen close throughout the record you can hear moments where I broke, and Devon and I chose to leave some of those in there because they were so real, you know. So yeah, to answer your question, it’s hard to get through some of these tracks without a big old hockey puck in your throat.
The “Single” Whore?
I may be in the minority, but with progressive conceptual music, in particular – and most music, in general – I prefer to wait and listen to it in its entirety rather than listen to pre-release singles or teasers. However, I suppose if there is one song best representative of a “single” from this record it would be “American Whore.”
The profound nature of the lyrical revelation here is so biting (yet truthful), reminiscent of “Christians and Lunatics” and “American Babylon” – that the song actually stands on its own (apart from the whole) and begs to be heard. The paradox (and the brilliance) of the song is that it is the most addictive song on the album! LOL! Your thoughts?
I’m not sure that I can give you an answer that is more interesting than the question itself or the statement itself, heh, heh … give me a second on that one…
I just started humming this thing out of nowhere, this “I’m down on the floor with my American whore.” Quite literally it hit me like a bolt of lightning one day, and I was like, “Well, that’s a catchy little phrase. Kinda controversial, provocative … where the hell did that come from?” I just couldn’t get it out of my head. I just started humming it and put it down on my little phone recorder just so I wouldn’t forget it. Yeah, just kind of haunted me.
So, long story short, I sent my brother (Jeff) a little audio clip just like this and it said, “Hey bro, ready? This is a number one hit single. Write me some kick ass, groovy, metal, Saviour Machine-ish, but more groovy, kind of heavy blues jam around this line.” (Eric sings the chorus) I sent him a vocal melody and a couple of notes, and about 3 weeks later Jeff came back to me with 4 minutes of the music for “American Whore.” And then it was just a matter of me writing some lyrics and finding the right melody. So, thank you, man. I guess if I ever intended to sit down and write a catchy song, that was it.
I know Jeff and I have never … we’ve never set out to write a hooky song or anything like that. I don’t know, if we wanted to do that, we probably would have done that by now. But like I said, the hook itself was just so organic out of nowhere and made me laugh, and also made me think, and I couldn’t get it out of my head. Just wanted to share with you that little process of how it came together. I sent a vocal melody and Jeff magically came back with 4 minutes of music and that was it, brother.
Greatest Love
Finally, while all the songs on this recording are strikingly good (and I could probably ask you more questions than you would ever have time to answer), what one or two songs do YOU deem to be the most impactful and moving on a personal level?
I probably have answered it, but I’ll just say that every one of these has a special place. You know, they are all like kids – they all have a special place. You love them all, and they are all wonderful for who they are. But “A Man’s Heart” and “The Greatest of These” … “Chasing Monsters.” Man, I’m a sucker for the ballads, you know, I always have been. Those are the ones that hit me the deepest. And I am proud of this record and so grateful to have been able to bring it to life with some wonderful people.
Finale
So, my understanding is that the physical media (CDs and vinyl) have already sold out! Congratulations! And while folks can still support you and obtain a copy of the digital files from your website, is there a chance we will see more physical media in the near future or was this a once and done thing?
Yeah man, we did this in house – private crowdfunding, produced it ourselves. It was an intense experience and not so lucrative, but we were thankful that we could manufacture 600 copies. We sold the 400 CDs and 200 vinyl and there’s definitely a demand for more. But at this point, I’m basically kind of at a precipice trying to figure out where I want to go from here. I have a lot of interest from smaller labels to do licensing deals, but I’m just not sure at the moment.
I’m probably going to hold on to the rights to this for now and decide exactly how I’m going to move forward soon. But I can assure you that there will be a second edition at some point in 2021. There are other things I have planned for this record, and because I can’t go out and tour and because I can’t go out and perform this as a “rock opera” piece at the moment, the way I have it visualized in my head. You know, from the very beginning, this is intended to be a rock concept show and I’m a visual performer and it’s been a long time since I’ve performed in a conceptual setting. So, I am very much looking forward to it.
In the meantime, with corona virus and the current state of things, performing live doesn’t look like its right around the corner. So, I am working on a few other things to visually connect with my audience and find a visual representation of this record coming up very soon.
Encore I
I suppose this is the cliché question of the interview (I apologize in advance), but one burning in the minds of fans – is Saviour Machine writing and or recording any new music at this point? And if so, what can we expect to hear?
We are, not currently active in writing, but we have some material “in the can” that we have been working on and off for the better part of five years or so. We have some foundation to build on. At the moment we are all just involved in other things. I am very focused on and promoting and continuing to advance awareness about my new album. I have a lot of plans that I would like to bring forward in the next few years around A Thousand Scars and the live visual presentation of it and so forth.
My brother Jeff is scoring some independent films, and he’s amazing at it. I think he is going to get busier and busier with that. Jeff and I are discussing a few ideas on the side – a little side project here and there – some things that we are playing around with at the time.
The other guys, Sam, Nathan and Chuck, they are all working on a side project at the moment – a new project for the three of them – and so I’m kind of excited to hear what they are working on. I’m sure that we will all find some time to come together again and revisit some old ideas. Let’s see where things go from here. For the moment there is enough to contend with and I’m just hoping everyone stays safe in the meantime.
“…enjoy the journey, live the journey, experience the journey and pay attention to the journey because sometimes it’s over before you realize it and there’s good stuff to learn along the way.”
Encore II
Eric is there anything else you are wanting to share that we didn’t already discuss? About the music, your journey, or your faith?
You know what brother, I’m sure there is, but its late and I’ve been gabbing for hours it seems, so I think we covered it. You know what, it’s really just about… Well, you said the journey. It is about the journey and I suppose my words of wisdom would be – enjoy the journey, live the journey, experience the journey and pay attention to the journey because sometimes it’s over before you realize it and there’s good stuff to learn along the way. God bless you, my friend. Everybody take care, be safe. The world’s in a weird place right now but hope springs eternal.
Curtain Call
I will take this opportunity to thank you from the bottom of my heart, man. You were a pleasure to do an interview with and this would have been a blast face-to-face and we’ll have to do that someday. Look forward to it, or at least a video call. But I appreciate your time, I really appreciate your articulate questions, your concise questions, your intelligent questions … it’s always a pleasure to give an interview when the questions are great. So, thank you, God bless you my friend. Please pass along my regards to Doug. I love that dude, too … and it’s been too long since I’ve seen him.
Will do. I have really enjoyed this – like better than the best birthday present ever kind of enjoyed – and so thanks to you as well and congratulations on this wonderful new record and your new-found love of life. Look forward to hearing more from you soon. Stay safe – Doc.
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Always been a fan of Savior Machine. Great article!