TESTIMONY OF APOCALYPSE: When Pain Is In the Offering

Testimony of Apocalypse is making some noise with their sophomore album and over several conversations with Paul Graham (former Sacrament drummer) and Nick Pacitti, we discuss Sacrament, how its failed reunion birthed the mighty TOA, and get the recipe for taking a who’s who of metal artists and turning it into an extreme metal tour-de-force.

Mike Torone (original Sacrament singer) is noticeably absent on this album. Is that a temporary change for Testimony of Apocalypse, or a permanent one?

Paul: When we decided to do another album, Mike informed us that he would only be able to do about 4 songs. So we knew that we would fill out the rest of the album using guest singers. About 2 months later, Mike said he couldn’t do any songs this time, citing medical issues that he needed to address. At that point, we knew that it would be all guest singers. After this album, we’ve decided that we will be moving on from Mike. A 3rd album is planned and we do have a singer. We are just waiting a little longer to announce who that is.

A teaser! How did you hook up with Nick Pacitti?

Paul: I met Nick when I was teaching senior high Sunday school. He was in 9th grade. We formed a christian rock band out of Sunday school students and a couple adults. We played for 14 years. As each student graduated, they were replaced by younger ones. I think we had 35 members over those 14 years and recorded 3 cds, played live at many churches and festivals. Nick stayed in the band the whole time. That went from 1999- 2013.

Nice. So you’ve never left the rock scene since Sacrament. Have you been itching to get back to playing heavier music again?

Paul: Sacrament ended in 1993. I sold my (drum) kit right after. Was wondering what the Lord would want me to do, and teaching the senior high class seemed the best way to keep reaching the youth. Didn’t play again until we started that band in 1999. That ended in 2013. Sold my kit again. In early 2021, Sacrament was thinking of doing a 30 year reunion album. We met and started to get ideas, but it was apparent that it was not gonna work out. That’s when me, Mike, and Nick formed TOA. To be honest, I never thought I’d be playing this style again, as much as I enjoy it. I think all the years with the other band rounded out my abilities. We didn’t just do rock. We did a couple metal tunes, blues, jazz, funk, and contemporary stuff. It expanded my repertoire.

Has metal changed as a genre since you last played it?

Paul: Since my Sacrament days?

Yeah.

Paul: Oh yeah! Just when we were winding down, death metal was just starting to gain traction. Then there was progressive death metal. There’s all kinds of metal now. We are considered a thrash/death/doom hybrid with some progressive stuff mixed in.

Death metal matured quite a bit from the violent themes of bands like Cannibal Corpse in the 80’s to some pretty heady stuff these days.

Paul: I would agree. The death metal bands I remember were Death, Obituary, Living Sacrifice.

Yes. Living Sacrifice is one of the christian metal heavyweights. Masters of thrash, death, and metalcore. I think when their debut came out, no one knew how to categorize them. Did Sacrament have the same problem? Did the audience know what to make of you?

Paul: Sort of. We just kept telling them we were christian thrash. Haunts of Violence started incorporating some death metal parts. Had we stayed together, the 3rd album would have been death metal. People told us we were going to hell for looking the way we did and our musical style. They said we had too many doom themes. Our titles and lyrics were straight out of the Bible, so we just let it roll off our backs.

This is the cover we wanted for Haunts of Violence. We were told by REX that it was too brutal.
It was actually a concept that Christ could conquer death.

I like it. It’s in the same vein as the Presumed Dead demo cover, I think.

Paul: Same artist. He did all our covers for Sacrament.

Did the mainstream bands accept you, or did they reject you because you were christian?

Paul: The mainstream bands were actually very cool with us. They were just amazed that we could look and play just like them, but sing about Jesus and the Bible. They actually respected us for having the guts to do what we were doing.

Paul: Just a side note: This logo was not our idea. REX demanded we take it or we weren’t gonna be putting out the album. This cover below is what we gave them.

Paul: That’s the correct logo. That’s the one we always used.

That’s so odd. Why would they push that issue with you guys?

Another side note: If you look at Living Sacrifice’s first cover. That was actually supposed to be our cover, if you take the orange logo and put it on their cover. That’s what REX presented to us. So, not our cover and not our logo!! We said, “No way!!” REX had already paid for the artwork and said if we didn’t take it, they would give it to LS and we said, “Go ahead.” I think that made them mad and they pushed that orange logo on us.

Those are some crazy little bits of metal trivia!

Paul: This was the cover they handed us and we said, “No.” They said we were taking the cover and we said, “It’s not going out with the orange logo!” Wasn’t that just trivial? What a power struggle over artwork!

I never could figure out what that cover was supposed to be. It looks so out of focus.

Paul: Everyone who has seen this cover has asked, “What is it?” And we’d reply, “Exactly!”

Ha, ha!

Paul: We called it the Flaming Tater Tot! (laughs) I think it is supposed to be sin lurking near your door or something like that.

They could have just shown the devil peeking in a keyhole.

Ha! Yeah. Our original cover was better. We were ahead of the curve.

Is the band able to reissue the albums as they were intended, or does someone else still own the rights to them?

Paul: Eone owns them and won’t sell them to us. They consider it an asset and that’s the end of it. We thought that we’d get the recording rights back after 35 years, which is a copyright law, but R.E.X. even got one over on us there. They hired us as an “artist for hire” to record our own music! This negates the 35-year revert back to the artist. We can never own those recordings.

What if you rerecord them completely?

Paul: We do own the composition copyrights. The only way would be to rerecord the albums, which most of the guys feel they can’t do. I feel like I could play the drums still. So I’d have the rest of the guys’ permission to rerecord without them. Actually, I only need Erik Ney to approve. There’s only 3 names on the composition copyright. You have to have the majority to proceed. Erik and I formed the band, so that would only be right.

I last saw Erik when I interviewed Fountain of Tears (band with Joey Daub from Believer).

Paul: Yep. I saw them a couple times. I talk to him a couple times a year. Just recently he was sharing his thoughts on The Offering. He really enjoyed it.

Interesting. Sounds like as soon as record companies got involved, artists’ control of their own art went out the window.

Paul: Pretty much back then. Guaranteed that’s not happening with TOA. We have all the rights this time- music, artwork, interviews, merchandise.

What good is getting older if you don’t get wiser, right? Sounds like smart decisions this time.

Paul: I make the labels very aware that we will not be getting taken advantage of this time. We have pretty much laid our cards on the table and said- This is what we want or we’ll move on. We’ve had plenty of interest. I expect more with the newest release.

Nice. It’s good to see some familiar names back playing christian metal again.

Paul: Yes. It’s a revival of sorts!

It really is. But the kicker is that it’s the early bands that used metal as a vehicle for evangelism that are hitting the studios again.

Paul: At this point I’ll play ‘til I can’t. I’ve played in 3 bands – Sacrament, Risen, and Testimony of Apocalypse. All Christian.

Our message just never goes out of style.

Paul: Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Yessir.

Nick and Paul, how’s it going down the road in Philly? I’ve been talking to Paul already, mostly catching up on all things Sacrament, now let’s focus on Testimony of Apocalypse. With singer Mike Torone out of the picture for this recording, you two made the brave move of making an entire album with various guest artists. What was the process? Did you pick artists to fit songs you already had written, or were they involved in the process too?

Paul: The songs were written first. We had the singers agree to be part of The Offering. Then we shared the song we felt best fit the singer.

Nick: As Paul said, we had the songs written and arranged before sharing.

Were they artists you guys knew personally, or just by reputation?

Paul: They were artists we knew. Some were friends that Nick had been talking to and others I had known from my R.E.X. days. Most were suggestions from the post we put out in FB looking for singers.

Nick: A few of the artists were up-and-coming and had styles that we enjoyed – Ville from Inborn Tendency, Brian from Burial Extraction, and Juan from Let the Day Perish. Paul had connections with DJ (Living Sacrifice) and Greg (Minier, Applehead, The Crucified) from the Sacrament days.

Paul: There were a couple that were from suggestions – so a nice mix of singers – new, old, and suggested.

Do you think they stretched the band into new territory style-wise?

Paul: I don’t think it did musically. The music was gonna be what it was. I think vocally it incorporated what we wanted- some thrash, death, metalcore, black, and clean vox. I think the album helped form what we want our band style to be.

Nick: Yes and no. Derek Corzine, who mixed the album, played bass on 11 of the 12 tracks and sang on the opening track “The Time Has Come,” had a lot to do with keeping a cohesive sound, even with all the different vocalists. While the guitar riffs/ melodies and song structure weren’t impacted by each vocalist, Derek was able to shape the feel and vibe of each song in post-production based on the vocalist’s style.

The variety of styles certainly made for a great album!

Paul: Thank you. We were very happy with how it turned out. We felt the Lord’s presence throughout. Way too many things worked out perfectly. It was no coincidence.

Nick: I appreciate that, thank you. There were so many people involved that made this album come together. No doubt the Lord was behind it. The process was smooth and everyone was very easy to work with.

Considering that you let so many guests write their own lyrics, you’re right. It is amazing how intelligent and God-centered the songs turned out. You’ve got this extreme metal band singing and extolling about the Holy Spirit and the holiness of God. The Holy Spirit is always the perfect coordinator.

Paul: Amen to that!

Nick: “Majestad,” which is the closing track on our 1st album None Escape the Judgment was an instrumental. The song was a fan favorite and we always wondered what it could sound like with lyrics. Anderson Lima from Brazil was a vocalist referral to us. At that time, all of the songs had vocalists attached to them. However, Paul and I heard Anderson on a couple of youTube videos performing and we wanted to give him a shot. So we decided to send him “Majestad” to work with and he nailed it!

Any performances that stood out to you?

Nick: Everyone put time into their lyrics and performances. Some went to recording studios, some recorded their own, but everyone sounded professional. I wouldn’t put one performance ahead of another, but I will say that some of the unknown artists really blew us away.

Was there a certain theme to The Offering?

Nick: We didn’t necessarily have a lyrical theme or concept in mind. For the music- we just wanted to get heavier, tighter, and more deliberate with our execution. We upgraded all our gear and the songs just started to flow. What turned out to be the theme is explained in the liner notes, but in a nutshell- Everyone committed time and sacrifices to deliver on an album in the Lord’s name, which is an offering in itself.

You certainly succeeded in the heavier department. Any of the songs you wanted to talk about in particular?

Nick: Thank you. Not one in particular. Each song has its own personality. Paul and I never worried about genre/sub-genres, but we know the songs sound like us!

Thanks, guys. I love the new album and I hope it does well for you. I’ll see you guys when you start playing shows. Blessings.

Nick: Thank you. Any feedback on any of the tracks that stand out for you?

I was amazed at how much the 1st song reminds me of Killswitch Engage and their interplay of melodic and harsh vocals. With some of the songs, it was the music that grabbed me. Other times it was the lyrics that drew me. Gotta love a song where the Holy Spirit is the focus or just extreme music with divine lyrics. It’s like redeeming the genre of death metal.

Nick: Amen.

Paul: Thanks for the interview.

Glad to put in a plug for you guys. Hope to see you soon.

The full boat of guests performing on The Offering made this album shine, so I thought it might be fun to solicit a few of them for their comments on working with TOA:

Hey, Darren “DJ” Johnson (early Living Sacrifice), I’m interviewing Testimony of Apocalypse about their new album and you wrote the lyrics to “Heretic and the Adversary” and “Welcome to Control” and sang on “Heretic…” Anything you’d like to say about the songs or working with Paul and Nick?

DJ: One thing I can say about working with Paul and Nick… They kind of made it easy for me, writing really cool riffs with great production, and the fact that I got to write lyrics for Greg (Minier) from The Crucified and it’s for an album with Paul (Graham) who was in Sacrament (both former REX labelmates)- it’s kind of a full circle thing and so metal!

Hey, Greg Minier (The Crucified, Minier, Applehead), I’m interviewing Testimony of Apocalypse about their new album and you sang on the track “Welcome to Control.” Anything you’d like to say about the songs or working with Paul and Nick?

Greg: Just that it was super easy and Paul and Nick were great. Paul asked me to do it and I said yes, I would give it a go. I told them I didn’t have any lyrics, so they asked DJ to write them. He got them to me quickly and I recorded the vocals at home. Sent the tracks off to them and they dug it. It was a fun and great experience!

Hey, Ryan Roebuck (Motivik, Vultures Gathering, Ritual Servant), I’m interviewing Testimony of Apocalypse about their new album and you played guitar on “Dead Man Walking.” Anything you’d like to say about the songs or working with Paul and Nick?

Ryan: Hey! I would just say it was an honor to be asked and I really enjoyed being able to get creative over a very cool tune!

And there you have it. Testimony of Apocalypse – The Offering is available now from Roxx Records and merch is available at anchormerchandising.com.

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